MU Podcast 053 - Fudging, Flubbing, and Failing

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TheStoryteller
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Re: MU Podcast 053 - Fudging, Flubbing, and Failing

Post by TheStoryteller » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:57 am

Hi everyone,
I was recently reviewing the podcast "back issues", and I have to say that I love some of the ideas I'm seeing (both in and out of this thread). I was thinking about the "bennies" system, and I wanted to throw an idea out there and see if it sticks. I was thinking about the non-mythos card game Once Upon a Time, where players take turns telling a story with nouns and adjectives on cards, and how the non-active players can effectively "steal" the story, if the active player says a word on their card.
Could this same mechanic be applied to "bennies"? Especially in such a way that characters can use these bennies not for their own, but only to help another PC or NPC.

For example:

After witnessing the aftermath of their good friend "Jack Eliasson"'s murder in a hotel room by cultists, the players follow the murderers out the window and down the fire escape. As the players start down the ladder, the PI Jim Jones slips (fails a DEX check), as it is rainy outside, and stumbles over the railing. Ben Samuels, the group's club bouncer, spends a bennie, to catch Jim by the wrist, and he dangles a moment, as Ben pulls him back up. As a result, Ben's player hands one bennie token to the player controlling Jim (to encourage Jim to repay the favor).

Or conversely, they could be used to hinder a PC or NPC:

As a cultist of Shub-Niggurath raises a ritual dagger and advances on Ben, who is unconscious from a nasty blow to the head previously, Jim's player declares he would like to spend a bennie. He grabs a discarded ritual dagger nearby, and slashes a rope tied to a banister beside him, releasing a chandelier above, and forcing the cultist to dash out of the way to safety, and interrupting what would surely have been a catastrophic wound to poor Ben. If bennies are spent this way, they go to the character adversely affected by the player's declared action, i.e. Jim's player hands the spent bennie to the cultist (Keeper). This gives them an additional bennie to spend in thwarting the investigators later in the adventure.

In the above examples, using the bennies in either way described does not cause damage or prevent it (directly). However, the player (or NPC) spending a bennie could have an instant where exactly what they want to happen, will automatically happen, and without any die rolls.

This is what I came up with today, so I have not yet playtested it. I welcome all feedback, and any suggestions for improvements.

Thank you all for what you do,

-TheStoryteller

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Re: MU Podcast 053 - Fudging, Flubbing, and Failing

Post by Dr. Gerard » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:11 am

I like the idea, though it doesn't have the spiral of doom that 7e's luck spending has. This approach removes a little bit of horror in favor of narrative control. On the other hand, it would allow a Keeper to increase the level of danger encountered in a scenario by orders of magnitude. That would make for a lot more action and close calls, much like an adventure genre.

Savvy players would contrive ways to pass the bennies back and forth rather than give them over to the Keeper.

Is there a way to have the passing of a bennie between players also increase risk or exact a cost from the player who spends?

In any case, I'd like to hear how it plays out if you try it.
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Re: MU Podcast 053 - Fudging, Flubbing, and Failing

Post by Keeper Jon » Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:54 pm

I've recently listened to Shannon Mac run some CoC games, and he uses a bennies system. He calls them clue chips. Give a listen to some of his games, I think they are available via the Skype of Cthulhu actual play feed. If not, ask Shannon on this forum, and he'll point you to the right link.

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Re: MU Podcast 053 - Fudging, Flubbing, and Failing

Post by TheStoryteller » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:54 am

Hi guys, Thanks for the feedback and pointers.

@Keeper Jon, I've been listening to SoC a lot at work lately, and I remember what you're talking about. I may setup something similar when I next run something. Definitely worth a re-listen. 8-)

@Dr. Gerard, When I wrote that up, it was late, and I hadn't even considered the player abuse angle. You are absolutely right. Perhaps I could either make all spent bennies go to the keeper, or equate it to a pushed skill roll. Possibly, they can only be used on a PC's failed (or botched?) roll, or an NPC's successful/impaled one? Let me know if you guys think of another way to fix this, or if you like these ideas.

When I originally posted, I was imagining the game playing out in a horror + action/adventure genre as you suggested, where the tension or drama doesn't always come from the monsters under the bed, or the guys with guns. The main thing I wanted to maintain with it, was the sense that no amount of bennies can be used to save yourself, you have to trust in yourself, and your partners.

I'm a little concerned about the 7e Luck rule...but I'm willing to give it a fair shot. My initial impression is that there appears to be no "spiral of doom", if the players can refill their Luck by activating their "connections"...However, the "connections" thing itself sounds like a good idea to inspire characters that didn't simply "spring up out of the ground". I believe I'll have to wait patiently and read carefully when the new rulebook comes out. Unless I'm missing something?

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. :D

-The Storyteller

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Re: MU Podcast 053 - Fudging, Flubbing, and Failing

Post by Dr. Gerard » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:02 pm

Hi TheStoryTeller,

Jim Jones is a truly horrifying name for a PI.

Anyway, you're right about the "luck spiral" not being permanent, but I think the reward for recharging with connections comes at the end of an adventure, just like SAN rewards. I could be wrong about that, because I don't have access to the full 7E rules. Jon, fact check? In any case, I don't think there's an easy way to abuse Luck spending and Connections to give yourself infinite die-changing points. Worth looking into.

As written, Luck spending and the Push mechanic are the two ways players can impose their wishes on the game world. Some Keepers may be dispensing with one or both of these options. If you add a Bennie system of some kind, I would consider dropping one of them to limit the number of player options for narrative influence. Three seems like a lot. Unless you are running a big time pulp adventure style, where lots of lucky breaks are absolutely part of the fun. Indiana Jones had plenty of Luck and Bennies to spend, and Pushed his rolls all the time.

One idea: The player can ONLY spend a Bennie to help other PCs. But the player who spends a Bennie risks some kind of calamity happening to a Connection. If you're not using Connections, I think you could easily use language like "something dear to you suffers a setback," or maybe "your character suffers a loss of some kind." That way, spending a Bennie is always a dilemma. As with the Push mechanic, you could always foreshadow the consequences to make the choice more present for the player.

Player: "I will spend a Bennie to catch Jim Jones by the wrist as he plummets off the railing!"
Keeper: "Ok. If you do that, your character must suffer a personal setback. Wouldn't it be ironic if you were there to catch Jim Jones, while back in Arkham your dear Aunt May also suffers a fall? If only you had been there to catch her...."

OR

"You mentioned what your character wants most in this world is to gain tenure at MU. It would be a shame if a colleague discovered some of your personal notes about ghouls living under Arkham, and brought them to the attention of your tenure committee..."

In fact, I might just do something like that for Bennies next time I play Realms of Cthulhu using Savage Worlds.
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Re: MU Podcast 053 - Fudging, Flubbing, and Failing

Post by Keeper Jon » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:20 pm

The recharge of Luck via connections is a slow process. So the feel of a downward Luck spiral is very real. Basically, don't expect to recharge Luck during a single adventure/scenario. You might get a little via your connections during a scenario, but for the most part, expect to fully recharge your Luck in-between adventures... should you survive.

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Re: MU Podcast 053 - Fudging, Flubbing, and Failing

Post by TheStoryteller » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:39 am

Hi guys,
Dr.Gerard, you're right about Jim. Hopefully he doesn't follow in his namesake's footsteps. As for the Luck spending, now I see where Chaosium is heading with it. If it's mostly for between-adventures, that's more reasonable. Thanks to you and Keeper Jon for clearing that up. CoC tends to be brutal on the San and HP, so if the PCs finish it mostly intact, they deserve to recharge before heading back into the good fight. What I may do is back-burner the bennies system once 7e is out, until I see how pushing and Luck Spend works...but I feel much more confident about the new ruleset. Thank you both! :D

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Re: MU Podcast 053 - Fudging, Flubbing, and Failing

Post by Dr. Gerard » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:36 am

It's an interesting idea nonetheless. Curious how Shannon does it.
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Re: MU Podcast 053 - Fudging, Flubbing, and Failing

Post by Shannon Mac » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:00 am

Thanks for the shout out, guys.

Here's a link on the Infrno game I'm running for the Skype lads which details the basics of clue chips and a few other house rules:

http://www.infrno.net/games/4407-shanno ... ang-part-8
My gaming blog with pretty pictures: http://www.storytellersjem.blogspot.com/

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